But having bought a few ELO white label promos and blissfully unaware of the black clouds looming on the horizon I decided to get in contact with Lynne Reed / aliasthecompass, hoping there were more ELO goodies in her collection that she would be willing to sell me away from Ebay. So I sent the list, and to my surprise and amazement a reply came back, very quickly too. She had 24 impossible to find white label promos - I wanted them safely in my collection and quckly agreed a "deal" for all 24 at GBP 800 with a staggered payment agreement. I was very happy, and decided to have a look at the other items aliasthecompass had for sale, and clicked on the feedback out of interest : The alarm bells started to ring !!. (Thanks again, Magnus)
I decided to check my purchases from aliasthecompass and upon closer inspection was not very impressed with any of the pressings, particularly the 4 prong "white labels" :
ELO "Roll Over Beethoven b/w "Queen Of The Hours" Harvest Label HAR 5063
ELO "Showdown" b/w "In Old England Town" HAR 5077
ELO "Turn To Stone" b/w "Mister Kingdom" JET UP 36313
ELO "Mr. Blue Sky" b/w "One Summer Dream" JET UP 36342 (The freebie as a gesture of goodwill)
Without copying and pasting every email that had been sent by me and received by aliasthecompass, I would just like to offer a few items for you to study (although I have copied every email sent and received and saved to CD).
Here goes :
On January 26th 2008 Magnus got this email :
"Dear Magnus,
This is Lynne here, Vinnie's wife. He is currently in hospital and looks as if he may well be in for at leaset
the next couple of weeks.He's asked me to write to you concerning a refund of GBP 120.00. I will need your PayPal
account address and I will try to sort this over the weekend for you. Sorry to be a little vague but I am not a
record collector, all I do is pass on messages. Thank you in advance for understanding,
Bye,
Lynne"
Quote : "Sorry to be a little vague but I am not a record collector, all I do is pass on messages".
On June 20th 2009 at 11.25am I got this email:
"Hello Andy,
I had a bit of time this morning so I thought that I'd try to put your mind at rest.First of all I'd like to say
that ANY record that you buy from us that you're not happy with will be refunded in full. The subjest of test
pressings is a slightly sore subject particularly with the customer you mentioned. He soon backed off but he has
left a somewhat damaging letter and link as you mentioned.All of the items I have as test pressings are all 100%
genuine, but I am the first to admit that some will look very dodgy. A lot of them are actually labelled by hand,
but these tend to be the solid centre ones. Some of the ones with the very rough looking 4-prong push-out centres,
like the ones you had from me are certainly dodgy looking, but they have come from LOCO studios in South Wales which
is very near to me.The problem also arises that I have no written documentation as to where the items come from.
A lot of collectors do expect me have written evidence to support the item, but it's just not possible in most
cases. The people in the studios whom the test pressings are intended for in the first place, very seldom listen
to them more than once. They are not record collectors and a lot of these items are simply discarded.Some of the
items in the 24 ELO in question do have a machine cut centre, the Jeff Lynne item certainly has, but most of the
others are solid centres with just a small centre hole.I would be more than happy to send you the 24 items to look at
and make your mind up as to completing the deal or not. I want you to be 100% happy with every item you have from me.
All I can do is assure you that they are all 100% genuine, but the final decision rests with you.Oddly, the
items that have faked are all too often the machine cut ones.I could talk about test pressings all day and try
to explain the different types that exist. I have some that are smaller labels just hand stamped over another
label, 1-sided pressings with a totally irrelevant label from another single on and the list goes on.Sorry, but
my scanner and camera don't take good close-up pictures like yours, but the thing to think about over the weekend
is to let me know if you would like me to send the 24 items up to you for your approval before anything else.I'm
away now until Monday evening, so we'll catch up then.By the way, no offence taken, I totally understand.
Kind Regards as always,
Lynne"
Quote : "I could talk about test pressings all day and try to explain the different types that exist. I have some that are smaller labels just hand stamped over another label, 1-sided pressings with a totally irrelevant label from another single on and the list goes on".
So Lynne Reed is not a record collector, all she does is pass on messages ? - and yet she could talk all day with and try to explain all the differences to me and she has quite a good collection too.
I sent this june 26th 2009 7.30am :
"Hello again
"I'll be e-mailing again tomorrow evening" ??
I waited until late for an email.I hope all will be good by the weekend - what do you propose to sort
out this problem ?
I have 5 of your pressings (4 x 4 prong pressings i'm not happy with, and the creation one)
Again, the sticking point is the HAR5077 - record supplied not the one pictured - you even have "Livin' Thing
up for sale with a similar 'machine cut' finish which is more like other ELO white pressings bought from another source
that I have in my collection. (I can of course supply scans to show this).
I will not wait past Monday for a solution - you don't pay good money for a record and then receive a totally different
"dodgy" version.
If the roles were reversed and you had bought the records from me - you would be threatening legal action !
Andy."
Here is the reply : I received this email on June 26th 11.52am :
"Hello Andy,
First of all, if I am unable to get on-line, there's not a lot I can do about it. I tried all last night and was unable to. For that I apologise, but that is down to circumstances way beyond my control.Secondly, the item in the scan is just a white label single that is used, in most cases all white label singles do look exactly the same. There is no attempt to scam or decieve anyone.Thirdly, my description of some labels looking "dodgy" is simply that. A description, not admission that the item is dodgy.I reiterate that all of the items are absolutely 100% genuine. My husband not only worked within the music industry but also worked in various record plants and subsequent pressing factories. Some of the items in question were actually obtained from band members. Hugh McDowell was the source for a number of the early test pressings.Now to the problem in hand. I am more than happy for you to return the singles to me and I will issue a full refund. At no point have I ever indicated that you would not be refunded. Given the circumstances I think this would be the most acceptable way to proceed. I feel sure that you would be unhappy with any item you get from me, even the single sided LP pressings that I have.I will ask you to understand that at no point in any of our deals has there ever been an attempt to defraud you in any way, shape or form. I am sorry that you feel you have been cheated. All I can do is to state that all of the items I sell are absolutely 100% legitimate and authentic. It is indeed very sad that a seed of doubt from one customer overrules the positive feedback of nearly 5,000 satisfied customers.I felt previously that we had a good buyer/seller relationship and the fact that it has soured truly saddens me. I am truly sorry about it and can only offer my apologies and a full refund for the items you are not happy with.I am still happy to offer you other items. I have UK test pressings of the first 2 LP's that are single sided discs. Very scarce indeed. If you would like me to send any of them to you just to look at and then return to me. I would have no problem with that at all.If you genuinely want me to send any of the other single testbpressings then again I am more than happy to do so. I assure you that I hold no malice or grudge. All I want is what I have always wanted from any of my customers, and that is for you to be 100% happy and satisfied with any record you have purchased from me.Changing the subject slightly, as I write this e-mail we are in the middle of a heavy thunder storm, so I have no idea what power supply we will have. We live in a valley that has notoriously bad reception for TV and mobile phones and the internet connection is currently very intermittent. There are plans for the village to have various boosters to give a better reception and service. Please do not think that I am deliberately ignoring any messages. I assure you that customer care is a top priority but sometimes due to circumstances beyond my control, I am simply unable to get on-line.All that said, simply drop me a line and let me know how you wish to proceed.I send you my Kindest Regards as always and hope you will accept this
letter in the manner it is intended.
Your Sincerely,
Lynne
So according to this email, :
Quote : "Secondly, the item in the scan is just a white label single that is used, in most cases all white label singles do look exactly the same. There is no attempt to scam or decieve anyone."
Ask "zaryboy" from France, he seems to have a similar problem and left this feedback On 19th November 2008 at 17.12 :
"The sent object doesn't correpond to the picture. Embezzler". Buyer: zaryboy ( 26) 19-Nov-08 18:55
Reply by aliasthecompass (19-Nov-08 19:12):
"EXACT ITEM SENT - This buyer is from France and is an abusive liar & con-artist"
I only wish I had had the courage to have lodged lodge negative feedback against the two items that I could have, before the time left to leave feedback had lapsed, but unfortunately being a trusting soul and stating so in an email to aliasthecompass - I didn't want to put a dent in her otherwise excellent feedback. I'm very sorry I didn't, Ebay were trying to be helpful when I eventually ran out of patience and started to ring the helpline, I had paid cash for the majority of the items and after quite a few phonecalls to Ebay, nothing concrete has happened, although they were good enough to supply contact info, the first phone number wasn't recognised by the phone system, and after contacting Ebay yet again, a second contact number was sent out - I phoned it up and a gent answered and after a few questions stated he had never heard of a Vinnie or Lynne Reed, aliasthecompass or indeed anything to do with Ebay - and had had the number for 30 years. I have since tried the number and Ebay too, but it rings out and eventually goes to an answerphone. (I am convinced the "gent" spoken to was indeed "Vinnie").
Now for another quote from the above email :
Quote : " My husband not only worked within the music industry but also worked in various record plants and subsequent pressing factories. Some of the items in question were actually obtained from band members. Hugh McDowell was the source for a number of the early test pressings"
Oh, thats alright then, former ELO member Hugh McDowell was a source for the early pressing...... they must be genuine then ! It was handy to know the above info on her husband Vinnie.
Here are some sample pictures :
Top pics : "Turn To Stone" "A" Label Demo and an ELO white label from my collection (from a genuine source)
Bottom pics : "Mr. Blue Sky" blue label demo - the "freebie" from Vinnies own collection and the ELO "Showdown"
HAR 5077 bought from aliasthecompass.
You would have to agree that the top pics from my collection have a nice crisp machine cut finish and the bottom pics are "dodgy" looking pressings from aliasthecompass - make up your own mind. Now to the interesting bit : The freebie "Mr. Blue Sky" given to me as a gesture of goodwill by Vinnie has two stripes across the label. Seeing as though I was putting this story together for Magnus, I might aswell scan it and see if I can "see" what has been crossed out......... So I scanned it and after using the "special effects" on the Roxio Photosuite software and choosing "baby blue" as a colour the writing became a little clearer ! Fantastic - I then done a little bit of digging and edited together two further picture samples :
Although not exactly clear - the two stripes on Vinnies "Mr. Blue Sky" blue label demo / promo / test pressing -
reveal "THE GIBSON BROTHERS" "Latin America".
Fantastic, I'm getting somewhere now ! - so I looked at a couple of online trustworthy record shops and found two listing this blue label demo by the Gibson Brothers and you know what ? - the lettering is exactly the same ! (see "ELO FAKE - GIBSON BROTHERS EXAMPLES")
I smell a rat : The Gibson Brothers "Latin america" blue label demo was issued in 1980 The ELO "Mr Blue Sky" blue label demo from Vinnie was issued in 1978 according to the correct timeline............ Hang on, I'll get me detective hat on...... what is a 1978 "100% genuine" blue label demo by ELO doing with a 1980 blue label by The Gibson Brothers on it ???
Going back to the previous quote :
Quote : "My husband not only worked within the music industry but also worked in various record plants and subsequent pressing factories. Some of the items in question were actually obtained from band members. Hugh McDowell was the source for a number of the early test pressings"
I wonder if Vinnie misused his position in one of these record plants and subsequent pressing factories ??? I think this will do really, as an example of a fake blue label demo in my collection supplied by aliasthecompass, I'm glad I wrote this little story and scanned the "freebie" Mr. Blue Sky - cheers Vinnie, as mentioned above - what is a 1980 label doing on a 1978 record ???
Many. many thanks Magnus, you have saved me paying out GBP 800 for what is a pile of worthless plastic (that's if they have been 'made' yet). I think this ELO / GIBSON BROTHERS example says it all really - I don't need to add anything more. I would assume Vinnie or Lynne Reed would have an answer for all this, it wouldn't surprise me. I think if ANYBODY sent an email to aliasthecompass and requested records by ANY BAND / ARTIST they would be able to supply a few goodies, maybe ? But I am blocked from buying anything from aliasthecompass at present and there has been no communication from them for a long time.
Magnus has one other email sent to me as an example - stating he was given a full refund - but he has not received one single penny as of yet. I think it is time to sign off now as the above is enough I think. Thank you once again, Magnus - your link saved me a lot of money and I discovered by accident really the best example of a fake supplied to me by aliasthecompass
A slight addition :
I have also sent an edited picture to Magnus of another item I bought from aliasthecompass showing the handwriting on
two totally unrelated records :
White labels with handwriting. To the left a copy of a Sandie Shaw record, to the right a copy of a record by the Creation.
A comparison of the handwriting.
Take note of the "S" in "SHAW" and "SPIRIT".
Take note of the "D" in "CHANGED" and "CALLED".
Take note of the "C" in "CHANGED", "CALLED" and also "CREATION".
Make up your own mind on these two - two separate labels from completely different eras - and remarkably similar handwriting - aliasthecompass certainly like "white labels" - there are not too many up for sale at present - I wonder why ?????
And also lastly but not leastly an edited together photo of the HAR 5077 ELO "Showdown" white label - the picture
uploaded by aliasthecompass onto Ebay and a picture of the record I received after buying it from them as a
comparrison:
To the left, picture uploaded by aliasthecompass, to the right scan of the record received, the ELO "Showdown"
HAR 5077.
Best regards Magnus (and interested readers),
Andy.
back to fake test pressings.